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- eelpout
- Member Since: 01 Jun 2017
- Location: Don't call it "Cali"
- Posts: 304
Discovery EV rumored for 2026
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- discus
- Member Since: 22 Aug 2019
- Location: North
- Posts: 158
Think the Discovery mission is going to be a challenge to go electric without losing some capability.
With the current diesel, I can tow a boat or caravan anywhere in the country without thinking about it, go camping in the middle of nowhere, or motorway cruise in total comfort.
There will have to be some compromises with battery size and weight to give that freedom. Not sure it can be done yet. The evokes, velars, maybe even range rover will probably not have much downside going electric, but I personally think Hybrid is a better solution for the likes of Defender and Discovery: Electric for all the day to day short journey stuff, with the engine to complete the tougher missions.
All Electric seems to be the future though, whether we like it our not.
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- Wolfpack
- Member Since: 25 May 2019
- Location: Norfolk, UK
- Posts: 360
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Totally agree.
When my disco goes more than 100mile round trips it’s more than likely to have a trailer of some sort on the back. I would therefore prefer a plug in hybrid that gives me a sensible electric range……eg 50+miles.
To be honest, I think JLR have an opportunity to do just that in the short term.with the Discovery and Defender. It would keep them definitively in the utility+ bracket while other manufacturers are ignoring the towing fraternity
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- Trevorb1
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2018
- Location: Nuneaton
- Posts: 284
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The D7u platform won't take a heavier battery pack due to limitation on rear axle capacity, hence why Defender PHEV is 5 seat ony, and no PHEV on Disco 5 to avoid loosing rear most seat row. Only when these 2 move to the MLA platform of new RR & RRS will they get PHEV with longer range.
24MY D300 Dynamic SE, Fuji White, Deployable Towbar, full size spare.
Gone 20MY SDV6 Landmark, Indus Silver, Deployable Towbar, 360 Cameras
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- DieselRanger
- Member Since: 12 Oct 2017
- Location: God's Country, Colorado
- Posts: 766
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The correct solution would be a diesel range-extender engine connected to a battery bank which drives electric motors on the F/R axles. A small diesel turning at optimum constant speed to turn the jenny just like a diesel locomotive would give true overland ability without the need to recharge the batteries.
A diesel turning at constant RPM or within a narrow RPM range to supply power under different loads to the battery would allow for very clean emissions tuning.
Add a plug to enable fast charging and modes for pure EV driving...I think that would be perfect.
Otherwise, they're going to have to buy the solid-state batteries that Porsche is developing that will supposedly allow for 600+ mile range.
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- Popsdosh
- Member Since: 06 Nov 2021
- Location: Cambs
- Posts: 138
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Not sure how a small diesel engine will improve its capabilities off road and towing , you can never harvest more power from an engine powering electric motors . JLR are making a mistake putting all their eggs in the electric basket.
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- DieselRanger
- Member Since: 12 Oct 2017
- Location: God's Country, Colorado
- Posts: 766
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The diesel engine isn't an engine, it's a generator. It only charges the batteries. The batteries and electric motors operate the way any EV does.
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- Popsdosh
- Member Since: 06 Nov 2021
- Location: Cambs
- Posts: 138
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you miss my point in that the size of the engine would need to be the same as that used in a non electric car to allow the same use and towing ability over a prolonged service period once the battery is exhausted. Its a simple rule of physics. .
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- DieselRanger
- Member Since: 12 Oct 2017
- Location: God's Country, Colorado
- Posts: 766
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Or, you park, run the engine to charge the battery, and then continue on. The Diesel doesn't provide any locomotion. It literally only turns the generator that charges the batteries.
The batteries supply the electricity to turn the electric motors. The batteries don't care how the juice goes in.
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- Popsdosh
- Member Since: 06 Nov 2021
- Location: Cambs
- Posts: 138
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I seem to be banging my head . however you try to work it out there is no miracle that turns a KWH of rotational energy from an engine into more than a KWH .
Let me take you back to what you gave as an example of a diesel electric train they certainly dont run on small engines . Typically a train may have a 4000hp diesel generating power which then due to inefficiency may run 2500 kw motors , so there may be a loss of 500kw as a 4000hp engine is 3000kw. The power required to move the vehicle is the same if powered by diesel or electric.
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- DieselRanger
- Member Since: 12 Oct 2017
- Location: God's Country, Colorado
- Posts: 766
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No, I get it, I'm an electrical engineer and a systems engineer, and I'm quite familiar with the adage that there's no free lunch. That's why they call it a range extender in automobiles and of course it's not 1:1. If the goal is to get to useable off-road range with today's battery tech and the ability to refuel and keep driving off road - the latter being the driving requirement for Land Rovers - a small turbodiesel REx tuned for torque is the way to go. You will never get a full battery charge off of an ICE range extender unless the battery is very small and the fuel tank is relatively large, but that's not the point.
Range extenders in automobiles either a) reduce net consumption of power from the battery by replacing some charge while driving, or b) replenish some battery charge as a reserve of power to keep driving. BMW's i3 REx added up to 40% more range from a 2cyl 0.6L petrol engine from a scooter and about a 2gal tank of petrol - they could have made it much, much more (>100% more electric range) but they wanted to avoid classifying the vehicle as a gas-electric hybrid in the US. Of course the i3 was small and rolled on pizza cutters, but the point is the engineering is there to get usable Land Rover range off road with a BEV, with the ability to keep going from a few rotopax's full of liquid energy by adding a diesel range extender.
How much energy is in a gallon of diesel? About 15% more energy by volume than petrol.
What's the thermal efficiency on average of a diesel engine operating at peak torque? Higher than an equivalent petrol engine, very close to 50%, perhaps able to be slightly higher if it's running at optimum RPM. These two features are why locomotive engineers design their engines with diesels rather than petrol engines for moving hundreds of thousands of tons of freight vast distances.
For road vehicles, many American city buses already work this way, as do some prototype heavy US military vehicles. Stellantis is testing DEH Sprinters here in the US right now. It's simply a matter of scaling and packaging.
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- Trevorb1
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2018
- Location: Nuneaton
- Posts: 284
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24MY D300 Dynamic SE, Fuji White, Deployable Towbar, full size spare.
Gone 20MY SDV6 Landmark, Indus Silver, Deployable Towbar, 360 Cameras
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- discus
- Member Since: 22 Aug 2019
- Location: North
- Posts: 158
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Odd that its MLA for the Defender but thats not 'affordable' for the Discovery. Frankly the interview comments are not reassuring for commitment to the Discovery going forward.
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- Trevorb1
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2018
- Location: Nuneaton
- Posts: 284
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Given that he openly admits they don't know what to do with Discovery going forward, I suspect it will get culled as a cost saving exercise eventually.
24MY D300 Dynamic SE, Fuji White, Deployable Towbar, full size spare.
Gone 20MY SDV6 Landmark, Indus Silver, Deployable Towbar, 360 Cameras
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- Trevorb1
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2018
- Location: Nuneaton
- Posts: 284
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EU7 becomes mandatory mid 2025, from the article, Jag ICE will stop before then so won't be certified to EU7, be interesting to see, given the comparatively low volume if they bother with Disco 5 or just pull the plug. If so, given lead time I would expect order book to close Q2 2024 so they can still deliver before EU7 deadline.
24MY D300 Dynamic SE, Fuji White, Deployable Towbar, full size spare.
Gone 20MY SDV6 Landmark, Indus Silver, Deployable Towbar, 360 Cameras
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