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- Dan NL
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PHEV D5
The RRS PHEV is just released and I am heavily disapointed. Why do JLR always use the extra electric power to raise the total power of the drivetrain ?
The basic D5 now has 180HP, my 2006 D3 had 190HP from the belt...
The PHEV RRS has over 400HP.... Why ? If you want POWERRRR by a V8 petrol.....
For me its very frustrating because first hybrid LR's where diesel powered ; costs me € 3000 pa in roadtax in the Netherlands.... Now they do use a petrol engine and then they don't keep it under 40mg CO2 per km... Why is this important for me ? Because then I would just pay € 400 pa in roadtax and a lot less for fuel as well. We sit in traffic jams 90% of the time as we travel, So we need to SIT comfortably. Thats why I have a D3 basicly as I am 105Kg and 2m tall. No other car seats me as comfortably. Ofcourse towing the horsebox and shifting furniture around with it is also convenient. But if by chance anybody at JLR reads this forum : go the BMW-route.... They - for ages - have put the same engine in 3 different engine sizes the x16 the x18 and x20 . These were 3 & 5 series. All engines were 2 liter againtst what one would expect from the badges. They just tuned down the x16 and x18 and safed a bundle on adapting fixings and fittings vor different engine types. So if JLR would make a " 1.6 Si4" with 100HP and 135HP electric -same as the 2.0Si4- it might be achievable to get down to below 40mgrams... This would not only mean a lot to the Dutch, but also to the Portugese clients. I think it would save them € 20.000 on the purchase a single car
!!!
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- DieselRanger
- Member Since: 12 Oct 2017
- Location: God's Country, Colorado
- Posts: 768
Thank the Greens.
Hybrid power is the easiest way to increase power without increasing emissions or fuel consumption.
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- Tim in Scotland
- Member Since: 22 Jun 2016
- Location: Scotland
- Posts: 101
I have just had a 4 day extended test drive of a Mini Countryman PHEV and am most impressed. I have never driven a Hybrid or EV other than a Lansing Bagnall electric forklift truck years ago and I was considering the RRS PHEV but 3 things have put me off - a) the price is ludicrous at getting on £79,000 for what is basically a 2.0ltr 4 pot petrol engined car b) having driven the 2ltr diesel version of RRS there is no way that a 2.0ltr petrol will haul around the weight of an RRS + >150kgs of additional battery+electric motor c) A PHEV is basically a town car, why did LR give it the full low range gears and TR, the petrol engine will be needed most of the time you are in conditions where they are needed and the 2.0ltr doesn’t have enough power or torque for the weight. I would have the Mini PHEV in a flash, it’s little 3 pot turbo 1.5ltr produces quite sufficeint power to haul the additional weight and Petrol consumption when the battery dies after 26 miles electric range is perfectly acceptable at 45+ mpg - I will be very happy to change to the Mini PHEV when I change cars next year. The loan car I had was pretty pricey at £43000 but it had every option box ticked except for the full leather interior and a panoramic roof but in no way did it feel at all compromised for being a PHEV, handling and performance was on a par with all the other minis. Build quality I would say was better than most LR products too. LR should have put the 3.0V6S/C engine into the PHEV not the 2.0ltr.
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- jimbg
- Member Since: 23 Jun 2016
- Location: Devon
- Posts: 1472
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Tim, did you not miss the cabin space of a Disco or RRS?
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- J77
- Member Since: 07 Jun 2016
- Location: Fife
- Posts: 1008
£43k for a mini
I would rather have the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV for that.
18MY Velar R-Dynamic SE D240 Fuji White
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- Tim in Scotland
- Member Since: 22 Jun 2016
- Location: Scotland
- Posts: 101
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jimbg wrote:
Tim, did you not miss the cabin space of a Disco or RRS?
Not in the least, I drive solo 99% of the time. The other things that impressed were the ride quality for a car on steel springs and the total lack of rattles and squeaks from the interior fittings.
One thing for sure, although it is all wheel drive it would get about as far off road as an X5, Porsche Macan or an SQ7
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- jimbg
- Member Since: 23 Jun 2016
- Location: Devon
- Posts: 1472
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- DieselRanger
- Member Since: 12 Oct 2017
- Location: God's Country, Colorado
- Posts: 768
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Tim in Scotland wrote:
jimbg wrote:
Tim, did you not miss the cabin space of a Disco or RRS?
Not in the least, I drive solo 99% of the time. The other things that impressed were the ride quality for a car on steel springs and the total lack of rattles and squeaks from the interior fittings.
One thing for sure, although it is all wheel drive it would get about as far off road as an X5, Porsche Macan or an SQ7
To be fair, the vast majority of RRS's (or any SUV, for that matter) never get off-road except to pull over for a farmer's market.
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- fisherman
- Member Since: 11 Oct 2016
- Location: Hornchurch
- Posts: 94
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I rarely use my D4 off road and it's primary use is that of tow car. Towing a 2500kg caravan off a muddy field takes more than most manufacturers can come up with in reality and have helped BMW owners and a Merc to get off site when we suffered floods a year or two back in Herefordshire.
I was interested in the PHEV D5 as I'm pretty close to the LEZ in London. I was concerned that the diesel was going to be hated into extinction and was looking at some way to continue caravanning (Just spent way too much on a Vanmaster) without being stoned to death by the greens out there. If the 2.0ltr/electric is the way they are going, I cant see the 2.0ltr alone being able to deal with 2.5 tonnes of van on top of over 2 tonnes of car when the battery dies. The battery just can't get me any distance when used with the 2.0ltr lump and recharging on a site in the middle of Spain/Italy/France/Croatia etc etc is going to be just about impossible. I thought about getting a generator but it's not going to have much clout and will keep all the campers awake. Another stoning in the morning it would seem.
I think the problem is that there's been no joined up thinking from either the government or the manufacturers. There is no infrastructure in place to deal with the electric needs of these cars should everyone choose to buy one. I'm at a complete loss as what to do next tbh. I have seen a few D5's on the road and I can honestly say I like them. I like the look and the tech they have and will find most of it very useful. I am however worried about spending a fair few £££ to find I cant use it where I live because of the emissions.
Anyone got a better idea?
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- jimbg
- Member Since: 23 Jun 2016
- Location: Devon
- Posts: 1472
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I thought long and hard about buying a D5 and decided in the end to do it.
The PHEV concept is flawed for the reasons that you gave and because it would still look like a large SUV at the end of the day the Greens are probably going to hate that as well!
With emissions I have no idea where it is going, but there are a lot of older cars, both diesel and petrol that are ahead of EU6 vehicles that need removing first?
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- Tim in Scotland
- Member Since: 22 Jun 2016
- Location: Scotland
- Posts: 101
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Bear in mind that also many PHEV’s and EV’s cannot tow anything............
Another thing - at the last MOT my 1996 Defender TDi300 that has no emissions controls on it actually produced less emissions than my 2015 Euro6 compliant SDv6 does according to it’s official homologation document, I will find out next year when it gets to 3 years old and has it’s first MOT if the same tester’s equipment still reckons that the TDi300 is greener than the hi-tech SDv6.....if I put my two registrations into the LEZ and Toxic Tax calculators for London the Defender cannot enter London but the Sport can....... something is very flawed.
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- fisherman
- Member Since: 11 Oct 2016
- Location: Hornchurch
- Posts: 94
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I saw a piece on a father and son regards this. It came to the same conclusion. My guess is that the extra power demanded of the TD6 engine is the cause of the emissions going up. As ever, you don't get anything for nothing. I can't see any alternative that would work for me and as stated previously, it'll be some time before they come after the EU6 models. When is EU7 due and will it apply to us anyway?
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- DieselRanger
- Member Since: 12 Oct 2017
- Location: God's Country, Colorado
- Posts: 768
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Emissions on the Td6 (at least in the US) is why it's only certified to tow 7,716 lbs rather than the 8,201 lbs the Si6 can tow, even though the diesel is a better towing engine.
Electrical infrastructure in the US isn't much better. As they say, in America, 100 years is a long time, and in Europe, 100 miles is a long way. I can't imagine going on a 300 mile road trip, *then* going off-road for 100 miles, on a PHEV with a 35 mile electric-only range. High-speed charging stations at trailheads are probably 50 years off here. If the Disco was only a PHEV, I wouldn't have bought it.
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