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- Chalkys HSE
- Member Since: 04 Jun 2017
- Location: Yorkshire
- Posts: 339
It's extremely difficult to reject when neither the Financial Company or the manufacturer recognise the Early Service Light illuminating as a Fault !
In a written response from them to me... it is manufactured to request an Oil & filter change when the Oil reaches a certain percentage, even if it comes on at 1,700 miles that is when it needs a service and the interim between services is solely down to the driving style of the individual.
2017 MY D5 HSE 3.0 Td6 Corris Grey, Side steps, roof rails,
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- mordred1973
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2019
- Location: Northamptonshire
- Posts: 758
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Basically same reply in writing grom my dealer. Altho admitted verbally it's a design fault hence SD6 from late 2018
2023 D300 Metropolitan, Hakuba Silver, Low Range, Solar screen, Deployable towbar, FBH, sidesteps.
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- Labbix
- Member Since: 05 Mar 2018
- Location: Tanzania
- Posts: 955
To conclude the sd6 has the solution seems a bit quick, that’s why I asked these owners to check and tell us...
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- mordred1973
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2019
- Location: Northamptonshire
- Posts: 758
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It would be reasonable to assume it has since its not had dilution issues in the RRS and Vogue?
2023 D300 Metropolitan, Hakuba Silver, Low Range, Solar screen, Deployable towbar, FBH, sidesteps.
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- DieselRanger
- Member Since: 12 Oct 2017
- Location: God's Country, Colorado
- Posts: 766
Chalkys HSE wrote:
In a written response from them to me... it is manufactured to request an Oil & filter change when the Oil reaches a certain percentage, even if it comes on at 1,700 miles that is when it needs a service and the interim between services is solely down to the driving style of the individual.
Well, that can be proven false, as the oil is totally fine for most drivers. Unfortunately owners need to document with oil testing results over several oil change cycles.
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- Chalkys HSE
- Member Since: 04 Jun 2017
- Location: Yorkshire
- Posts: 339
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And there in lies the problem. the 2.0 litre unit in the F-Pace and X-Pace Jaguar models aren't suffering Oil Dilution, The same engine in the Evoque and Disco Sport are hampered with it !
I have it on good authority that the SDV6 "WILL" still do much less than the 16,000 if used for short journeys, School run, shops, post office and local commutes etc,
The problem has been largely remedied for medium or longer faster paced motorway runs where the re gen will operate much more efficiently,
To be fair if i did only short journeys and it popped up at 6K i wouldn't create anywhere near the fuss that i have over only doing the few thousand it has.
2017 MY D5 HSE 3.0 Td6 Corris Grey, Side steps, roof rails,
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- Chalkys HSE
- Member Since: 04 Jun 2017
- Location: Yorkshire
- Posts: 339
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DieselRanger wrote:
Chalkys HSE wrote:
In a written response from them to me... it is manufactured to request an Oil & filter change when the Oil reaches a certain percentage, even if it comes on at 1,700 miles that is when it needs a service and the interim between services is solely down to the driving style of the individual.
Well, that can be proven false, as the oil is totally fine for most drivers. Unfortunately owners need to document with oil testing results over several oil change cycles.
The tool used to measure Oil Dilution is Land Rovers own method with the trigger being 6.1% whether the Oil is fine or not they stipulate it must be changed as well as the filter element once this level is reached.
Most independant test results i've seen haven't even tested for FIO criteria, Land Rover's own method is calculated by what ever means, it does't account for FIO either as it is not that advanced but seems to be triggered by AdBlu activations OR Re-gens activated ?
2017 MY D5 HSE 3.0 Td6 Corris Grey, Side steps, roof rails,
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- mordred1973
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2019
- Location: Northamptonshire
- Posts: 758
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Chalkys HSE wrote:
And there in lies the problem. the 2.0 litre unit in the F-Pace and X-Pace Jaguar models aren't suffering Oil Dilution, The same engine in the Evoque and Disco Sport are hampered with it !
I have it on good authority that the SDV6 "WILL" still do much less than the 16,000 if used for short journeys, School run, shops, post office and local commutes etc,
The problem has been largely remedied for medium or longer faster paced motorway runs where the re gen will operate much more efficiently,
To be fair if i did only short journeys and it popped up at 6K i wouldn't create anywhere near the fuss that i have over only doing the few thousand it has.
I am still thinking it's totally unreasoable at 6,000 miles. My XC60 did 18000 miles a year on one service and performed exactly the same at 103,000 miles when i sold as it did at 5000 when i bought it. service cost was alternate years £250 or £450. LR seem to think its reasonable to charge £450 for an oil and filter that you need at least twice a year plus a minimum service charge of about £650. Have asked the dealer to price up a deal to swap to an XC90 in stock at one of their other dealerships since over 4 years servicing alone will save me £4-5000.
2023 D300 Metropolitan, Hakuba Silver, Low Range, Solar screen, Deployable towbar, FBH, sidesteps.
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- Brooks1sr
- Member Since: 22 Jan 2019
- Location: Cheshire
- Posts: 17
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Mine had oil service at 2600 miles then at 5300 miles then had update so think sdv6 is the best by all accounts
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- mordred1973
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2019
- Location: Northamptonshire
- Posts: 758
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Ah you have 2018 model i guess if you had update? There is no update for 2017 models unfortunately
2023 D300 Metropolitan, Hakuba Silver, Low Range, Solar screen, Deployable towbar, FBH, sidesteps.
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- DieselRanger
- Member Since: 12 Oct 2017
- Location: God's Country, Colorado
- Posts: 766
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Chalkys HSE wrote:
The tool used to measure Oil Dilution is Land Rovers own method with the trigger being 6.1% whether the Oil is fine or not they stipulate it must be changed as well as the filter element once this level is reached.
Most independant test results i've seen haven't even tested for FIO criteria, Land Rover's own method is calculated by what ever means, it does't account for FIO either as it is not that advanced but seems to be triggered by AdBlu activations OR Re-gens activated ?
All of my own test results, posted here many times, test for FIO. In each case, it's well below 6.1%. In one case FIO was below the detection threshold of 0.5%, and my highest FIO level was 3.5%. 2,000 miles *past* my "Service Due" notice right now, my FIO is sitting at 1.5% and my TBN is still above 3.0%. All independent labs will test for FIO and TBN (a measure of motor oil additives remaining) if you ask them. Other results posted on this forum show FIO as well.
Land Rover's software estimates dilution based on the number of regens begun over some distance, and continually updates a predicted rate to reach 6.1% FIO, likely based on some expected rate of fuel wash into the crankcase. Unfortunately that estimation is overzealous. AdBlue is used to reduce NOx only and has nothing to do with soot in the exhaust. Regeneration of the DPF is performed to clean the soot out of the DPF. The AdBlue injection into the SCR happens downstream of the DPF. There are diagrams posted elsewhere on this forum.
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- mordred1973
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2019
- Location: Northamptonshire
- Posts: 758
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DieselRanger, I totally understand all you've said, shame that JLR cant employ a software engineer to get their detection to work correctly, to the point they have given up and dumped the engine in the form it was in the Td6 completely.
As it stands, our Td6 models will depreciate considerably quicker than expected due to the continual additional oil changes required (and huge related cost and inconvenience) to ensure the warranty remains and the service warnings are cleared.
Still very tempted after 4 months to pursue my dealers offer to buy back and go for something with a lesser spec and less servicing costs.
2023 D300 Metropolitan, Hakuba Silver, Low Range, Solar screen, Deployable towbar, FBH, sidesteps.
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- Brooks1sr
- Member Since: 22 Jan 2019
- Location: Cheshire
- Posts: 17
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You should get some free oil services under jlr gesture of good will for the my17 as mine is my 18 I have to pay and as for the dealers saying down to driving style for early service light indication I have a email from jlr who apologised for my wife's driving style they downloaded information from car and said it was being driven correctly and said n222 will fix it which it hasn't hence why I'm considering rejecting one of the reasons I bought the car was 16000 mile service and I think for a 70k car 8000k services is unacceptable
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- mordred1973
- Member Since: 08 Jan 2019
- Location: Northamptonshire
- Posts: 758
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Brooks...
Alas only cars with a gesture of good will are those regd before 1st June 2017 (and I think up to 3 years old).
Those regd on or after 1st June 2017 only come with another sort of gesture from JLR with a message saying "marketing material was changed at that time to say driving style may reduce distance between service intervals. Not entirely helpful to someone who purchased approved used, with dealer website listing service intervals as 12month/16000 miles.
I totally agree, 6-7000 miles is not acceptable service interval on any car, let alone one where they charge £450 for a few litres of oil and a filter.
I will miss my parking heater, head up display and 6 cylinder engine sound, but seriously think I have to leave the brand after my 4 months ownership. JLR have not a clue about producing something fit for purpose and when they can't not a clue how to deal with their customers
2023 D300 Metropolitan, Hakuba Silver, Low Range, Solar screen, Deployable towbar, FBH, sidesteps.
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- Brooks1sr
- Member Since: 22 Jan 2019
- Location: Cheshire
- Posts: 17
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Totally agree once you buy the car your on your own all reading from the same hymn sheet jlr driving style
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